What's the Point?

Went to see Shane Claiborne in Toronto last night. It was a good night, a great presentation. Shane and Chris Haw are doing valuable work for the Kingdom.

When we came into the church we found a shiny brochure and a poster on every seat. The poster was the upcoming movie, "The Ordinary Radicals". The brochure was for the magazine being launched by the Simple Way called "Conspire!" I sat there, with these two glossy advertisement in the pew rack in front of me and considered them, carefully, as I listened to Shane and Chris talk about subverting the empire.

Subverting the empire: the movie. Subverting the empire: the magazine. Subverting the empire: the book tour.

I don't know what else to say.

Comments

[Agent B]

Not knowing what to say IS a good point.

And Happy Canada Day.

[John Lunt]

Interesting isn't it. Yes Shane and company are doing great work for the Kingdom, but that just shows how difficult it can be to shrug off a Kingdom mindset.

[The lady at the end of the couch]

Not so much interesting, as disheartening.

Some of us have taken much inspiration from the example of groups like The Simple Way and have learned a lot from them. But this is not something that I would want to emulate. So who do I learn from now?

What about the lower-case ordinary radicals out here? Should we be trying to turn our lives into a speaking tour with glossy mags?

Are we less ordinary or less radical because we're just scraping by?

It's like what happened to modern worship music. Social justice has become branded.

[barrenmind]

All I can say is ...

Happy Canada Day!!!

(though, i'm working today :()

[jamie m]

Perhaps those things have more to do with the publisher than what Shane wants. I imagine that we all make compromises to get out the message.

[nancy]

:-)

[[rhymes with kerouac]]

Agent B - Thanks - and should I say 'Happy Canada Day to your better (Canadian) half?
:)

John - Yup.

The Lady at the End of the Couch - I might be wrong, but it's beginning to look like Simple Way is becoming another just American mega-ministry. A hipper, cooler, social justice branded mega ministry, to be sure, but... What I'm saying is the truly radical thing appears to be remaining a local, neighbourhood ministry...

barrenmind - Happy Canada Day to you too! And, yeah, I'm working too. Oy vey.

jamie - You may be right.

[Ps 46]

But how else do we get to know about this way of living? How else do we get encouraged to go out and do? Someone has to lead. This is the human way. If we change and do something because of it, isnt it then worth it?
They don't say there way is the only way. Seems to me I read that they don't expect that, but can give example and encouragement for others to go and do what God wants other individual groups to do.
There was a documentary on TV the other week that spoke about the coming food and fuel shortage. Banding together in communities seems like a good alternative to attempting to make it alone in a changing world.

[John Mack]

What then would this be, subverting the kingdom, the blog post? Brought to us by Squarespace, the privately owned Manhattan based corporation of Wall Street Journal and BusinessWeek fame?
Also, how have most people heard about The Simple Way and Shane Claiborne? Was it through one of his two books published by Zondervan, a subsidiary of Harper Collins, owned by Rupert Murdoch and News Corp?
One still needs to use the roads of the empire to subvert it. Ironic, sure. Hypocritical, not really.

Either way thanks for posting, you bring up an excellent point.

[Linda]

You've said a mouthful!!!

[nobody]

never thought he'd sell out. i see all the money spent on stuff like this and think of all the people that could have been helped. instead of creating another radical simple way maybe they should just quietly make a difference. sigh.

[[rhymes with kerouac]]

Ps. 46 - Yeah, I get that too.

John Mack - Of course, I'm not claiming to be a radical, nor am I claiming to be a revolutionary. I'm not going all over the continent telling people to subvert the empire I'm firmly entrenched in. Instead, I write on a blog that I pay for of my own pocket. Every cent of the money raised through it goes to support the Mission. And, oh yeah, I blog anonymously.

Linda - It just strikes me as odd, that's all.

nobody - I'm not sure 'sell-out' is the right word. Mixed-message might be more accurate.

[Urbanmonk]

Ive been thinking a bit about the phrase "a house divided against itself" and what that means. Seems like everything in the western life is explained by that term. Seems like thats what we are. But where else do we have to go as culture? That is what we have to contend with. Its not going away. Until its being dug up by archeologists like the roman empire. As humans, we tend to extremes, wanting to kill off one evil or the other. Internal or external.. A house divided against itself seems to tend towards that desire that action. I dont know how we are supposed to reconcile our divisions, internal or societal or cultural,maybe they cant be, perhaps all we can do is contend with them, wrestle them like angels of the Lord, Or demons of hell, with out trying to kill them off. A good friend of mine who had Claiborne stay at their house when they came to Australia always says to me, the weeds and the wheat grow together. Actually they are just reminding me of what Jesus said. And I wonder what that means. Weeds and wheat, and divided houses...

[John L]

Jesus employed the temple, the Torah, and the marketplace to subvert the dominant religious and political paradigms of his day. We should probably follow that example. These days, RSS feeds are where I hear of just about anything that's important.

It's not the medium but the forces behind the medium that matter. That's why it's important to keep the Internet - the emerging global town square - unregulated and relatively free of corporate or government control.

[Don]

There's no mixed message. Shane is clear in his books about trying to find a balance and using the system. He continuously talks about struggling with simplicity and keeping to Jesus' way while finding ways to share the Word, ask tough questions. Please hear and read him carefully. He also talks about keeping himself off the pedestal, as well as the risk of celebrity.

And what you describe in Toronto is consistent with the Simple Way -- from the very beginning. Do you not recall that both of his books also peddled DVD/CDs? And do you not recall that all of the income from these efforts are redistributed?

I admire your anonymity and the work you do. I also admire Shane's work. There's strength in anonymity -- and there's strength in celebrity. Both can be ordinary radical.

How easily we judge.

[Dustin]

One thing I would say is that while the advertisements should be questioned, maybe more exploration needs to be had regarding how these projects are put together.

The DVD project is being done by an independent documentary maker by the name of Jamie Moffet, who doesn't happen to be a Christian (if I'm remembering correctly). In addition, the magazine is a collective project, where individuals are invited to submit art, writing, etc, and distribute the magazine in their communities. Although there isn't much contained in the advert, it seems as if it will be a communal project.

Finally, kudos to the person who mentioned the redistribution aspect of the money gained from these projects. If I'm remembering correctly, the profit made from Shane's first book was redistributed to various community projects and ministries already at work. The tour, while interesting, was free, when they could have very easily charged and charged greatly in our celebrity Christian sub-culture. In conclusion, one of the points in the most recent book was the struggle the authors went through regarding publishing their book via a mainstream publisher.

I agree that these struggles should be discussed and thought about deeply. But, I do agree that part of subversion involves using the tools of the empire to your own advantage when you can. I'm fine with proverbially using Caesar to subvert Caesar.

[Jamie Moffett]

Thanks so much for the dialog! Great comments here.

I'm Jamie Moffett, director of the feature documentary The Ordinary Radicals. We're completely independently produced, as is the Another World is Possible series (the DVD's mentioned in the back of Shane Claiborne's book "The Irresistible Revolution").
To be clear, the only media produced by a big corporation are Shane's two books.
The idea behind using additional media outlets is to connect with folks who don't necessarily read books that often. Example: we get word from folks who are visually impaired that love to listen to the audio of the DVD & CD of the AWIP series. Additionally, other folks just don't find books as engaging as movies or magazines. We want to listen to and share stories with them too. If it looks professionally done, thanks!
As for money, much of it goes to The Jubilee Fund set up by The Simple Way. Contact The Simple Way for the 40+ grassroots organizations that receive money from the fund.
Thanks for letting me share. I hope this clears up questions for you all. I'll be on the road with my film crew following the Jesus For President book tour for the next 11,000 miles. We try to answer questions & keep up to date at The Ordinary Radicals blog, but of course there's some answers that'll just have to wait until the movie is released in theaters September 4th.
Warmly,
~jamie

[Tara]

There is 'nothing new under the sun'....

[[rhymes with kerouac]]

UrbanMonk - Yeah, I wonder much the same things myself...

John L - I agree.

Don - I did listen to Shane carefully. I did read him carefully. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean I haven't been paying attention, and it doesn't mean I'm being judgemental, either. I also began my post by stating that Shane and Chris are doing valuable work for the Kingdom, and I'll stand by the statement too.

Dustin - I grasp the significance of the struggles that Shane went through in publishing via a large publishing house. Those struggles are kind of irrelevant now though, aren't they? What Shane is telling us is that he had these deeply held values and he had the desire to take his message to a wider audience, and the two conflicted. So he sat down and made a conscious descision to compromise those values.

Think about it.


Jamie Moffat - Thanks for stopping by... I appreciate the comments.

Tara - That's a good point, actually.

[Dustin]

"Dustin - I grasp the significance of the struggles that Shane went through in publishing via a large publishing house. Those struggles are kind of irrelevant now though, aren't they? What Shane is telling us is that he had these deeply held values and he had the desire to take his message to a wider audience, and the two conflicted. So he sat down and made a conscious descision to compromise those values.

Think about it."

I agree that those values would be compromised as it relates to publishing the books, but I'm failing to see how that criticism can be leveled across the board, like some seem to be doing.

Don't get me wrong. I think when you have a message like Shane's and you do things which seem to contradict that message, you better be prepared to answer those questions--and I think they have been. I just am wondering what the totality of the judgment should be.